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Auteur Topic: Amerikaanse Smient  (gelezen 401 keer)

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martinharskamp

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Gepost op: april 17, 2008, 09:25:25 am »

http://waarneming.nl/foto_details.php?id=311496

Is dit een zuivere Amerikaanse Smient of een hybride?

Bij Amerikaanse Smient moet de borst en flank toch de zelfde kleur (rozer?) zijn?
Gelogd

HJDT

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Reactie #1 Gepost op: april 17, 2008, 09:37:41 am »

Er lijken Krakeeend invloeden in de vogel te zitten. De wittige voorhoofdsvlek ontbreekt, de groene oogvlek is te groot (lijkt misschien meer op Chileense Smient ??) en de flanken zijn behoorlijk grijs. Heb weinig verstand van hybrides maar een zuivere Amerikaan is het zeker niet.
« Laatst bewerkt op: april 17, 2008, 09:37:57 am door HJDT »
Gelogd
Heb je echt niks beters te doen?? Kijk dan eens op onze nieuwe site in aanbouw: www.feathertail.com

It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.

JohanvantBosch

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Reactie #2 Gepost op: april 17, 2008, 09:52:08 am »

Snaveltekening wijst al op een hybride. Maar interessant beestje. Ik dacht ook aan chileen x krakeend.

Alcedo atthis

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Reactie #3 Gepost op: april 17, 2008, 09:55:18 am »

See the bill colour, mainly dark, and the flank colour, a pale rust colour.

In my opinion this bird is a hybrid Chiloe Wigeon x Gadwall!
Gelogd
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Justin Jansen

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Reactie #4 Gepost op: april 17, 2008, 12:24:08 pm »

Citaat
See the bill colour, mainly dark, and the flank colour, a pale rust colour.

In my opinion this bird is a hybrid Chiloe Wigeon x Gadwall!
There is indeed Chiloe Wigeon influences in this bird!
Gelogd
M.v.g., Justin Jansen

Jan Harteman

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Reactie #5 Gepost op: april 17, 2008, 22:55:36 pm »

Yup, Chiloe wigeon X something... maybe gadwall.
Interesting bird... but, unfortunatelly, probably escaped from captivity :(

Alcedo atthis

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Reactie #6 Gepost op: juni 06, 2008, 13:54:07 pm »

Look at this page and click on the photo of the Duck labeled American wigeon:

http://www.moonridgefarm.co.uk/page6.htm


That is the same hybrid! I think again Gadwall x Chiloe Wigeon.

Also, can Yellowbilled duck ever have that orange feet?!?


 
Gelogd
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Jan Harteman

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Amerikaanse Smient
« Reactie #7 Gepost op: juni 06, 2008, 21:58:04 pm »

Citaat
Look at this page and click on the photo of the Duck labeled American wigeon:

http://www.moonridgefarm.co.uk/page6.htm

That is the same hybrid! I think again Gadwall x Chiloe Wigeon.
I don't agree it is the same kind of hybrid. The latest picture you meant has more green in its head patern. I rather believe this might be an American wigeon X Falcated duck (Anas falcata).

Alcedo atthis

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« Reactie #8 Gepost op: juni 08, 2008, 15:21:06 pm »

Citaat
Citaat
Look at this page and click on the photo of the Duck labeled American wigeon:

http://www.moonridgefarm.co.uk/page6.htm

That is the same hybrid! I think again Gadwall x Chiloe Wigeon.
I don't agree it is the same kind of hybrid. The latest picture you meant has more green in its head patern. I rather believe this might be an American wigeon X Falcated duck (Anas falcata).
Hi Jan,

Sorry; I should have said I think it is Chiloe wigeon x Gadwall , as I also think from the initial duck in this thread.
(Certainly I didn´t do a DNA analysis from the Photo ;) )

I excluded American wigeon x Falcated duck, because those hybrids of that combination, which I had seen, are quite close to the hybrid Eurasian wigeon  x Falcated duck:

As those, They showed a clear whitish throat patch as in falcated duck, rusty brown ground coloration of the head , a variable sized green head patch  and all dark under tail coverts as eurasian and american wigeon. and grey vermiculated flanks (With only a weak colour tinge of rosy brown over the vermiculated flanks in case of american wigeon involvement).

This hybrid here suggests to me chiloe wigeon involvement due to the head pattern and the rusty orange brown coloration on the flanks.
also between the black undertail coverts are a few white feathers, which also hints to chiloe wigeon involvement.
The head pattern and flank coloration could also fit to Chiloe wigeon x Falcated duck.

But I still think it is more likely to be Chiloe wigeon x Gadwall, because the extention of the green patch as well as the strength of iridescence probably can vary.
I have seen one other photo of a supposed chiloe wigeon x gadwall which looked much like the initial bird in this thread, but where this one shows a blackish head patch, that other one had an iridescent green patch.
Therefore I think these birds here can well be the same kind of hybrid but at the oposite ends of the variability of this hybrid.
 
Gelogd
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Alcedo atthis

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« Reactie #9 Gepost op: juli 03, 2008, 18:36:30 pm »

Hi Jan,

concerning this bird

http://www.moonridgefarm.co.uk/page6.htm

I have tried to evaluate its features again for myself and to compare with other Hybrids. So I revise my thoughts to probably Falcated teal x Chiloe Wigeon.

In my opinion there are some features that could fit either the hybrid combination you proposed (American Wigeon x Falcated Teal) or the hybrid combination I proposed (Chiloe Wigeon  x Gadwall); for example colour pattern of the beak or colour pattern of the head.

However, I see 3 traits which fit well to Falcated Teal Parentage:
1. The hindneck feathers look rather long giving the bird a thicknecked appearance- this could result from Falcated teal parentage
2. The scapulars look quite whitsh/light grey partially, which would also be a falcated teal trait.
3. There ist a thin vertical black line before the tail base- such a line is part of falcated teal pattern in this body area

I also see 3 traits wich indicate Chiloe wigeon parentage:
4. Flank colour is with a rusty-orange component, that looks good for Chiloe wigeon parentage, but does not fit to the less strong coloration of American wigeon hybrid with grey flanked Anas species.
5. some of the undertail coverts are pale; Chiloe Wigeon has white undertail coverts and this trait is often partially expressed in hybrids of this species
6. several scapulars are very dark centered- good for Chiloe wigeon parentage.

I know the picture quality isn´t that good that we could be 100% sure of all these traits....

 
Gelogd
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus
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