smient maar met wat

Gestart door cor fikkert, januari 24, 2009, 17:37:06 PM

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cor fikkert






kwam deze twee vogels tegen in een kanaal in ijsselmuiden

der zit chileens bloed in maar wat nog meer?

Jan Harteman

Heel bizar.
Ik zet mijn geld in op Kastanje eend (Anas castanea) X Smient (Anas penelope)


Alcedo atthis

greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

cor fikkert

maar dan wel een chileen neem ik aan?

Jan Harteman

Waarom Chileense?
Ik herken duidelijk de Smient vorm, maar om nu te zeggen dat het Europese / Amerikaanse / Chileense smient is vind ik heel lastig.

Alcedo atthis

#5
I think chileense smient is the least likely- look at the scapular pattern which shows pronounced greyish vermiculations.

neither Chileense smient nor Kastanje eend hebt dat. but it must come from one of the parents.

so to me the most likely seems Europeese smient...(maybe amerikaanse is possible, but it seems too greyish to me???)
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

cor fikkert

yes I think (now also) not chiloe

the spot on the cheek is more american,

for the male most probably:

Anas castanea X Anas americana

but the female?

Same?

Alcedo atthis

I think You can not rely on the cheek spot for IDing a hybrid involving one of the northern wigeon species---
these two different looking species  (americana and penelope) in my experience give both very similar hybrids with Northern Pintail, and also both give very similar hybrids with mallard--and in both these cases penelope hybrids as well as americana hybrids can show cheek spots.

see here for example :

penelope x platyrhynchos:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/14195020@N08/2951624816/

americana x platyrhynchos

http://www.flickr.com/photos/globalhermit/...57605778684167/



greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Alcedo atthis

#8
The birds in this thread have changed the location. Assuming these are the same individuals (Which seems likely to me as this is not an everyday hybrid) , they are in Norway now:

http://www.artsobservasjoner.no/artportalen/gallery/Image.aspx?rappsyst=1&obsid=5448376&imageID=83931

http://www.artsobservasjoner.no/artportalen/gallery/Image.aspx?rappsyst=1&obsid=5448375&imageID=83929

http://www.artsobservasjoner.no/artportalen/gallery/Image.aspx?rappsyst=1&obsid=5459936&imageID=84223

I still think these two both are most likely Chestnut Teal x Eurasian Wigeon.
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Alcedo atthis

And as far as i can see tertial pattern and head pattern fit exactly for the Dutch and Norwegian birds---i think it is highly likely these are the same birds.
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

cor fikkert

this is realy strange, one woult think a hibride is a local half tame bird that will stay in the aria.


Alcedo atthis

Not nessecarily, I think Anas castanea makes also some long distance movements in Australia, and both northern wigeon species are migratory... so if hybrids are healthy and have adapted to natural food sources, they could turn up anywhere...
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus