Indische x Sneeuwgans?

Gestart door gjcaspers, oktober 16, 2007, 16:18:04 PM

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gjcaspers

http://waarneming.nl/wn_details.php?id=3074089
http://waarneming.nl/wn_details.php?id=3076951

Vandaag deze vogel zelf bekeken. Vleeskleurig oranje snavel met zwarte snijrand (Sneeuw?) en nagel (Indische?), vleeskleurig oranje poten, wit op zijhals in punt omlaag lopend, dunne zwarte streep over achterhoofd omhoog lopend met aanzet van twee dwarsstrepen (Indische?), hals en borst donkerder dan lichaam (Brand?), afhangende puntige tertials donker met witte zoom (Sneeuw?).
Meeste kenmerken lijken op Indische x Sneeuwgans te wijzen, maar kan die hybride zo'n afgetekend donkere borst hebben?

Went to see this bird for myself today. Fleshy-orange bill with black cutting edge (Snow?) and nail (Bar-headed?), fleshy-orange legs, white on side of neck tapering down, thin black line running up on back of head with indication of two crossbars (Bar-headed?), neck and breast darker than body (Barnacle?), drooping pointy tertials dark with white edging (Snow?).
Most characters appear to point at Bar-headed x Snow Goose, but can this hybrid have such a distinct dark breast?



Groet,
Gert-Jan Caspers

frankmeer

Ik had de waarneming met foto's al op Onjuiste determinaties gezet als hybride van het een of ander.
Frank van der Meer

Alcedo atthis

With the breast coloration I am not sure, but as you say , all other features point to that hybrid being   indicus x caerulescens

I´ll go through my database to check how dark the breast can be in that hybrid, but I think it is posssible...
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Alcedo atthis

Well, i have been checking pictures of 6 hybrids of that combination... one of them shows a darker breast nearly as pronounced as this one here.

(the photo I spoke of isn´t mine  and I´m not allowed to publish the photo, sorry)


in the other 5 it is not so clear...

but I think that means this bird could well be  Anser indicus x caerulescens
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

laatvlieger

A very strange bird, this one! What worries me is the black spots on the undertail coverts. Björn, you learned me this should be a character only involved in crosses with Emperor goose. So either Emperor goose is involved or you are wrong ;)

Furthermore the dark breast is really strange. Could this be a F1 crossed to another goose?  
Groet,

Wouter Teunissen


Mijn Weblog: http://birdboredom.blogspot.com/

tekenaar

what would be against (emperor x "something") x barnacle? That would explain all characters...  
Paul Veenvliet
dieren en planten tekeningen: https://paulveenvliet.art/
excursies in Slovenie: https://www.slovenia-nature-guide.si/

laatvlieger

No, I don't believe that. In crosses with emperor geese you often see the scaly pattern on the back returning in the cross. A cross with a barnacle wouldn't explain the orange bill, the extensive white on the back and the long tertials.

A maybe far fetched guess would be this is a hybrid between a F1 (emperor goose x barnacle goose)  x a bar headed goose.  
Groet,

Wouter Teunissen


Mijn Weblog: http://birdboredom.blogspot.com/

Alcedo atthis

I t would not explain quite a lot of things,

like the not very small, orange bill  (Barnacle x emperor have relatively  small black bills, whereas snow x barheaded bill colours range from pink to orange)

like the coloration and shape of the tertials which shows snow goose influence

like the white on the belly , which also shows snow goose influence

and that the bird is not as scaly patterned and too light coloured on the back compared with emperor x barnacle hybrids  in my opinion....

I admit the pronounced dark breast looks unusual... but I see no other possible barnacle goose feature

greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

gjcaspers

http://waarneming.nl/wn_details.php?id=3336388
Zeer waarschijnlijk hybride Sneeuwgans x Indische Gans; mogelijk het exemplaar bediscussieerd hier, en dan enkele kilometers opgeschoven.

Dit is dus een andere vogel dan de hybride Brandgans x Indische Gans die al vele jaren op dezelfde locatie zit:
http://waarneming.nl/wn_details.php?id=1074052

Hopelijk laten ze zich nog een keer naast elkaar fotograferen, voor directe vergelijking.  
Groet,
Gert-Jan Caspers

RWester

Met vriendelijke groet,

Remco Wester