Hybride ? x ?

Gestart door Luuk Punt, april 20, 2008, 11:00:38 AM

Vorige topic - Volgende topic

Luuk Punt

Gisteren in de Braakman deze hybride (Am.?) wintertaling x pijlstaart?

http://waarneming.nl/wn_details.php?id=4110599

Reacties van harte welkom.

Hartelijke groet,

Luuk
Hartelijke groet,

Luuk Punt

http://vogelpunt.wordpress.com/

unicinctus

het lijkt mij niets vreemds.. gewoon wintertaling tog.. ^_^  

Ben Wielstra

Neen, dit is absoluut niet je standaard wintertaling!

Hij lijkt veel, ook qua 'jizz', op het tweede beest dat Jörn Lehmhus in zijn post van 5 april in dit topic heeft gemikt: http://forum.waarneming.nl/forum/index.php?showtopic=23062

Alcedo atthis

I would also think this is  a  Wintertaling with Chileense Taling genes. However, which generation I cannot say.
In the hybrid breeding some french people did with these species, they seem to have selected for birds which look more like wintertaling than like chileense taling.

It is definitely not Pintail x Wintertaling. Those have black undertail coverts and in most cases a head pattern that resembles Baikal teal.
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Ben Wielstra

Do you mean that the parents of the bird in the other thread are Anas flavirostris and Anas crecca (or carolinensis) for certain?

Flavirostris does have a very slender and pointy build, similar to this hybrid. The bird seemed larger than your normal crecca, but relatively large ofspring is not unheard of in hybrid pairs I guess. These species are closely related at least, so succesful hybridizing is not that counter-intuitive as in these other (freaky) hybrids I saw on this forum: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v116n03/p0792-p0805.pdf

What struck me was the brownish, female type uppertail coverts on this bird (I can't place it on whatever drake). Its fascinating how gene expression apparently works in these hybrids. I am intrigued by your remark that it may be more than first generation bird. Has it been proved that duck hybrids can reproduce? Is that the rule or the exception and is it not limited to maybe just a few species pairs?

What a revelation: ducks can be interesting!  

Jan Harteman

Afwijkende Wintertaling?
Ik vind het teveel op een Wintertaling lijken om er 1-2-3 een hybride van te maken.

Alcedo atthis

CiteerDo you mean that the parents of the bird in the other thread are Anas flavirostris and Anas crecca (or carolinensis) for certain?

Flavirostris does have a very slender and pointy build, similar to this hybrid. The bird seemed larger than your normal crecca, but relatively large ofspring is not unheard of in hybrid pairs I guess. These species are closely related at least, so succesful hybridizing is not that counter-intuitive as in these other (freaky) hybrids I saw on this forum: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v116n03/p0792-p0805.pdf

What struck me was the brownish, female type uppertail coverts on this bird (I can't place it on whatever drake). Its fascinating how gene expression apparently works in these hybrids. I am intrigued by your remark that it may be more than first generation bird. Has it been proved that duck hybrids can reproduce? Is that the rule or the exception and is it not limited to maybe just a few species pairs?

What a revelation: ducks can be interesting!
What I meant is:

Those people in France who did hybridize these 2 species (A. crecca and A. flavirostris) set forth with the F1 to produce an F2-and so on, up to F6! all those different generation hybrids were fertile, it seems.

F1 doesn´t seem to be so much on the crecca side in appearance as this bird.

Later generations were more on the crecca side, but I suspect this may be because people selected towards crecca coloration.

So I think if this is indeed one of the birds that came from this hybrid stock  (and it looks like that), it is one of these later generations.

This is what I also think of the swedish bird in the other thread.
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Ben Wielstra

Thanks for the info! It does look very crecca-ish. Especially the lack of the horizontal white bar made it stand out (from a driving car), but also size, shape and posture. The headmarking is also different: less yellow and more green.

CiteerAfwijkende Wintertaling? Ik vind het teveel op een Wintertaling lijken om er 1-2-3 een hybride van te maken.

Maar toch is het zo :duim: 1-2-3-4-5 wellicht?