Geavanceerd zoeken  

Nieuws:

Pagina's: [1]   Omlaag

Auteur Topic: Hybride ? x ?  (gelezen 533 keer)

0 leden en 1 gast bekijken dit topic.

Luuk Punt

  • Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 191
    • VogelPunt
Hybride ? x ?
« Gepost op: april 20, 2008, 11:00:38 am »

Gisteren in de Braakman deze hybride (Am.?) wintertaling x pijlstaart?

http://waarneming.nl/wn_details.php?id=4110599

Reacties van harte welkom.

Hartelijke groet,

Luuk
Gelogd
Hartelijke groet,

Luuk Punt

http://vogelpunt.wordpress.com/

unicinctus

  • Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 137
Hybride ? x ?
« Reactie #1 Gepost op: april 20, 2008, 14:46:00 pm »

het lijkt mij niets vreemds.. gewoon wintertaling tog.. ^_^  
Gelogd

Ben Wielstra

  • Observado validator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 2612
Hybride ? x ?
« Reactie #2 Gepost op: april 20, 2008, 15:37:09 pm »

Neen, dit is absoluut niet je standaard wintertaling!

Hij lijkt veel, ook qua 'jizz', op het tweede beest dat Jörn Lehmhus in zijn post van 5 april in dit topic heeft gemikt: http://forum.waarneming.nl/forum/index.php?showtopic=23062

Alcedo atthis

  • Validator
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 794
Hybride ? x ?
« Reactie #3 Gepost op: april 21, 2008, 11:20:32 am »

I would also think this is  a  Wintertaling with Chileense Taling genes. However, which generation I cannot say.
In the hybrid breeding some french people did with these species, they seem to have selected for birds which look more like wintertaling than like chileense taling.

It is definitely not Pintail x Wintertaling. Those have black undertail coverts and in most cases a head pattern that resembles Baikal teal.
Gelogd
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Ben Wielstra

  • Observado validator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 2612
Hybride ? x ?
« Reactie #4 Gepost op: april 21, 2008, 14:32:36 pm »

Do you mean that the parents of the bird in the other thread are Anas flavirostris and Anas crecca (or carolinensis) for certain?

Flavirostris does have a very slender and pointy build, similar to this hybrid. The bird seemed larger than your normal crecca, but relatively large ofspring is not unheard of in hybrid pairs I guess. These species are closely related at least, so succesful hybridizing is not that counter-intuitive as in these other (freaky) hybrids I saw on this forum: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v116n03/p0792-p0805.pdf

What struck me was the brownish, female type uppertail coverts on this bird (I can't place it on whatever drake). Its fascinating how gene expression apparently works in these hybrids. I am intrigued by your remark that it may be more than first generation bird. Has it been proved that duck hybrids can reproduce? Is that the rule or the exception and is it not limited to maybe just a few species pairs?

What a revelation: ducks can be interesting!  

Jan Harteman

  • Member
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 1837
    • Harteman Wildfowl
Hybride ? x ?
« Reactie #5 Gepost op: april 21, 2008, 16:39:38 pm »

Afwijkende Wintertaling?
Ik vind het teveel op een Wintertaling lijken om er 1-2-3 een hybride van te maken.

Alcedo atthis

  • Validator
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 794
Hybride ? x ?
« Reactie #6 Gepost op: april 21, 2008, 17:07:39 pm »

Citaat
Do you mean that the parents of the bird in the other thread are Anas flavirostris and Anas crecca (or carolinensis) for certain?

Flavirostris does have a very slender and pointy build, similar to this hybrid. The bird seemed larger than your normal crecca, but relatively large ofspring is not unheard of in hybrid pairs I guess. These species are closely related at least, so succesful hybridizing is not that counter-intuitive as in these other (freaky) hybrids I saw on this forum: http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/Auk/v116n03/p0792-p0805.pdf

What struck me was the brownish, female type uppertail coverts on this bird (I can't place it on whatever drake). Its fascinating how gene expression apparently works in these hybrids. I am intrigued by your remark that it may be more than first generation bird. Has it been proved that duck hybrids can reproduce? Is that the rule or the exception and is it not limited to maybe just a few species pairs?

What a revelation: ducks can be interesting!
What I meant is:

Those people in France who did hybridize these 2 species (A. crecca and A. flavirostris) set forth with the F1 to produce an F2-and so on, up to F6! all those different generation hybrids were fertile, it seems.

F1 doesn´t seem to be so much on the crecca side in appearance as this bird.

Later generations were more on the crecca side, but I suspect this may be because people selected towards crecca coloration.

So I think if this is indeed one of the birds that came from this hybrid stock  (and it looks like that), it is one of these later generations.

This is what I also think of the swedish bird in the other thread.
 
Gelogd
greetings,
Jörn Lehmhus

Ben Wielstra

  • Observado validator
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Berichten: 2612
Hybride ? x ?
« Reactie #7 Gepost op: april 21, 2008, 19:11:20 pm »

Thanks for the info! It does look very crecca-ish. Especially the lack of the horizontal white bar made it stand out (from a driving car), but also size, shape and posture. The headmarking is also different: less yellow and more green.

Citaat
Afwijkende Wintertaling? Ik vind het teveel op een Wintertaling lijken om er 1-2-3 een hybride van te maken.

Maar toch is het zo :duim: 1-2-3-4-5 wellicht?
Pagina's: [1]   Omhoog
 

Pagina opgebouwd in 0.052 seconden met 21 queries.